Euro Chat with Joe Ross
Chat log from: Thursday, March 1, 2007
| Bondtrader joined. | |
| joeross joined. | |
| joeross | Feeling bullish, Bondtrader? |
| Bondtrader | not at all.... waiting for 123 high |
| joeross | Still in Schweitz? |
| Bondtrader | How are you doing Joe ? |
| joeross | Very good |
| sav joined. | |
| joeross | We are piling in the money |
| Bondtrader | yeah a lot of rain here |
| crosten joined. | |
| joeross | Our trading lately has been fantastic, so we are starting to be very cautious. |
| sav | Hello everyone |
| Bondtrader | February was good for me too |
| joeross | Hi sav |
| crosten | Which method are you referring to Joe? |
| Bondtrader | only made two trades |
| joeross | Hi crosten |
| joeross | crosten: I'm not referring to any method, I'm talking about our own in-house trading |
| crosten | you mean , your trading team joe |
| joeross | Bond: That's all you need if they are good ones |
| murra joined. | |
| joeross | Hi murra |
| Bondtrader | I know up 10 % for my clients.... |
| murra | hi joe how are you |
| joeross | crosten: That's what I mean, our own traders |
| joeross | Bravo! Bond |
| Bondtrader | thanks |
| crosten | How many people are there in your trading team, Joe? |
| Bondtrader | and thanks to you for teaching me... |
| joeross | crosten: 2 here in the U.S., and one in another country. |
| crosten | Joe, did you make any trades today, if yes which markets ? |
| PeterC joined. | |
| joeross | crosten: ER2 and Wheat |
| joeross | Hi Peter |
| PeterC | good evening |
| sav | I thought the ER2 was wild today |
| crosten | Joe, if you day trade, how many hours do you usually spend? |
| joeross | Today was a great short in ER2 early, and so was wheat, early |
| joeross | It took 1 minute to make our money in wheat and about 2 minutes in ER2 |
| joeross | crosten: I do not trade more than 1.5 hours/day |
| crosten | usually from what time to what time joe ? |
| joeross | crosten: It depends on the markets |
| joeross | gold, bonds, currencies from 7:20 AM |
| joeross | really from 7:30 AM, I start watching at 7:20AM |
| joeross | ER2 from 8:30 AM; Wheat from 9:30 AM |
| PeterC | Joe r u daytrading the grains in the electronic markets? |
| joeross | Peter: Yes I am day trading wheat and sometimes soybeans |
| murra | which is the better time to trade euro/usd and the other future value Joe? |
| PeterC | me too, its fascinating |
| crosten | 1.5 hrs in each market starting from the time you stated above ? |
| joeross | murra: for me it is best from 7:30 to 9:00 AM |
| murra | us time? |
| joeross | crosten, you got it. But as soon as I have a winner I stop, unless I'm already in a second trade. 1.5 hours for each market from the time I start. |
| crosten | joe which technical indicator do you use for day trading ? |
| joeross | murra: U.S. Chicago time :) |
| sav | Joe i read the other day that you don't daytrade time frames below 30min chart, is that true and if so why? |
| joeross | crosten: We do not use technical indicators for our day trading these days |
| joeross | sav: It is true, we don't trade the lesser time frames. We want to avoid the noise of the smaller time frames |
| crosten | joe do you use time chart or tick chart or both ? |
| joeross | crosten: mostly time charts, sometimes tick charts |
| nathan joined. | |
| joeross | Hello nathan |
| nathan | Hi everyone! |
| PeterC | hi nathan |
| crosten | What time charts do you use 5 min, 30 min? And what tick chart in particular? |
| joeross | crosten: I use nothing under 30 minutes |
| nathan | One question Joe, why is gold falling when everything else is falling? |
| joeross | Tick charts vary depending on what I want to see |
| crosten | Joe, do you use pit noise ? |
| joeross | nathan: That is the million dollar question. I don't know the answer but I will be buying this dip. It makes no sense why gold is falling. That is why I trade what I see and not what I think. |
| joeross | crosten: I trade electronic markets. There is no pit noise! |
| sav | i can see why i was watching the 3 min chart in er2 today and that was crazy up and down like a yoyo |
| murra | which time frame for value is better for your technical joe? is very dangerous take an open position overnight? |
| nathan | Thanks, so we need both a joker! |
| joeross | sav: the 30 minute chart was beautiful. Take a look. |
| crosten | joe what is your all time favorite market to trade ? |
| joeross | nathan: gold really has me puzzled |
| joeross |
but I trade what I see not what I think. My opinion, which is worthless in the market says that gold should be moving way higher. |
| nathan | but puzzling can be funny ::dry |
| joeross | crosten: I don't have an all time favorite market |
| crosten | Joe do you use point and figure chart ? what do you think of them ? |
| joeross | :D I'm laughing, nathan |
| joeross |
murra: I use very little of technical analysis. I use chart analysis. If I use a technical indicator it is for daily charts or weekly charts. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule if the situation calls for it. It is not dangerous to take an open position overnight if you have your stops in the market, and are following your plan. |
| joeross | I took my profits in gold last Friday. |
| sav | joe which of the commodities or the agricultural products are the most liquid to electronically daytrade as i have never traded them before? |
| nathan | i hear it loudly! |
| joeross | I got out of gold almost at the very top |
| joeross | crosten: One of the best traders I know uses point and figure. I never learned how. |
| Mary joined. | |
| joeross | sav: all of the main grains: wheat, corn, soybeans, but not the meats, are sufficiently liquid |
| nathan | where are they traded? |
| joeross | Hi Mary |
| crosten | Joe, I heard from some broker that people are selling their gold as they have to answer to margin call for their stock holding, is this true? |
| nathan | eminis? |
| sav | great will take a look |
| Mary | Hi Joe |
| joeross |
crosten: I don't know if that's what they are doing with gold, I imagine some are doing that. My broker already got stiffed for $5,000 by a guy who lost all his money. They have to go to court now to get him to pay up. |
| sav | joe when you daytrade do you look at various markets and take the best trade that comes along? |
| joeross | nathan: e-CBOT |
| crosten | Joe, this best trader who use pont and figure, what time frame does he use? |
| joeross | sav: Yes, very much like that. I try to be eclectic and choose the trade that looks the best |
| PeterC | men, we lost the only woman here, guys be more gentle the next time |
| joeross | crosten: he mostly uses daily charts for point and figure |
| joeross | You guys have to be nice to Mary, yes you do! |
| Bondtrader | she already left |
| crosten | joe , do stop running occur in the futures index ? |
| Bondtrader | ??? |
| nathan | did she leave because of Joe´s hat????? |
| sav |
I think that is the best way because i used to only trade the dax which was good but during the lean times you end up looking for trades instead of waiting for the best |
| joeross | crosten: Stop running occurs in all markets almost all of the time |
| joeross | She left because she has work to do |
| joeross | Mary works here |
| Bondtrader | aha |
| nathan | a new hat for you.... |
| Bondtrader | somebody has to do the work... |
| joeross | She and Susan, too |
| crosten | How can stop running occur in the futures index? I am puzzled because the futures index track the cash index ? |
| Bondtrader | well give them a hug |
| joeross | crosten: Not true what you said. Futures can go their own way, and futures can lead the cash and often do lead cash. |
| joeross | Bond: I'll tell them you sent a hug. |
| PeterC | Joe do you think that currently is a good chance to sell volatility, for example calls on the bonds or puts on the indices? |
| murra | which time frame do you use for euro/usd ? |
| Bondtrader | peterc you are to late for that |
| nathan | Joe what´s the reason of the challenging time for your bond method? |
| crosten | joe do you still use the life index ? |
| sav | I've seen a 50 tick stop go off in the DAX |
| joeross | Peter: I would think so, but I haven't looked. You want to sell high volatility, but it is often best to wait for things to cool down a bit. The premiums will still remain high |
| joeross | murra: 60 and 30 minute for euro/usd |
| PeterC | thx |
| joeross | nathan: which bond method do you mean? |
| nathan | the traditional |
| joeross | crosten: I use it so much that I have become the life index :D |
| crosten | joe , of all the methods you are selling , which is your favorite ? |
| joeross | sav: I find the DAX to be too wild for my tastes |
| joeross | nathan: I don't know to which one you are referring, and I don't know what you mean by the "challenging time." So maybe it is one Andy developed. |
| joeross | At any one time we have several bond methods rattling around here. |
| ian joined. | |
| nathan | sorry, i meant your easy bond method |
| joeross | crosten: I don't have a favorite. However, the Sushi method, although it doesn't make many trades, is very, very stable |
| joeross | Hi ian |
| crosten | joe how much do you spend on charting ? data feed ? per month |
| ian | hi joe/everyone |
| ian | Joe, what do you make of this volatility? |
| PeterC | hi ian |
| joeross | crosten: What I pay for charting and data feed is not for publication. |
| crosten | is it more than 100 or less ? |
| joeross | ian: All I know is that it was set off by a rumor in China that the government was going to raise taxes. |
| sav | yes its very wild, i remember that stop because i got caught on it, it wasn't fun but got out ok |
| joeross | ian: the govt. denied they would and so there was a bit of a rally yesterday. |
| keith joined. | |
| joeross | But the markets are sensing trouble ahead. |
| crosten | Joe , how many trades does the sushi method make per week ? |
| joeross | Hi Keith |
| joeross | crosten: I really don't know |
| joeross | crosten: I will look |
| genmel joined. | |
| joeross | Hello genmel |
| keith | Hello Joe! |
| crosten | Joe, did the sushi method catch the move on tuesday ? |
| PeterC |
Joe, when you daytrade the markets from 30/60 min charts you probably put most weight on the first bar and the current bar before you enter - so I assume that you either take a TTE or a 1-2-3 breakout, is that right? |
| joeross | crosten: average number of trades per year in Sushi Bar is 39, so less than 1 per week |
| joeross | crosten: I do not know what Sushi did on Tuesday. I am not following or trading it at this time. |
| ian |
joe...i know you always say u cannot tell us where to put our stops but as a general question...does it make any sense to trade with a stop of say 10 pct of volatilty...eg daily range = 100 tics...stop 10 tics t/p 100 tics... |
| crosten | Joe, do you think this is the beginning of the carry trade unwinding for the yen? |
| nathan | Where is gold electronically tradeable without too much spread? |
| 1234leso joined. | |
| genmel | hello |
| joeross | Peter: Only partially right. TTE (Traders Trick Entry) is one way to implement the Law of Charts. There are other ways as well. |
| PeterC | which you wont tell me I guess, hehehe |
| joeross | ian: the only time I use volatility for stop placement is when I am trading spreads. Then I use 50% of volatility, unless I am using the Volatility Stop indicator, which lets the market tell me where to put the stop. |
| joeross | crosten: I do not know if this is the end of the carry trade or if it is the beginning of the end. Many of the Central banks are warning that it is because Japan will have to raise interest rates. Please don't ask me that question again. You have asked it on both chats at least 3 times. |
| ian | but you have written i think in trading by the minute that you often will not risk more than the average volatility on a trade |
| crosten | Joe if i email you can you send me the info on where I can get a good deal on charting and live data ? |
| joeross | nathan; The symbol ZG traded at the e-CBOT in Chicago. |
| joeross | 1234: Hi |
| nathan | thanks joe |
| 1234leso | hello joe and all |
| joeross |
Peter: I don't mind telling you. It's just that I don't put any weight on any bar. The only weight I put on is on me :D |
| Bondtrader | hello 1234 |
| ian | joe...but does the strategy i mentioned above make sense...the logic behind it is that most often when i am wrong i am properly wrong and the trade will reach my stop loss no matter where it is |
| Bondtrader | hahahahahahah |
| PeterC | well, that's not always healthy |
| joeross | ian: that's true, 50% is average isn't it? |
| joeross | crosten: I can tell you right here. The best deal on charting and data is Ensign Software |
| joeross | $49/month plus exchange fees. |
| crosten | 49 includes the charting and live data feed or separate pricing ? |
| joeross | ian: if it makes sense to you, and you are comfortable with it, and it works for you, then it is good |
| sav | joe when you daytrade do you mostly scalp the markets nowadays? |
| keith | Crosten, I have tested Ensign Software and received the data from my broker, Interactive Brokers. |
| joeross |
crosten: $49 is both data and charting, but you have to add exchange fees. |
| joeross | sav: Yes, with the exception of the bonds, I scalp |
| crosten | joe are you currently running a fund ? |
| joeross | crosten: No, I have never traded anyone else's money |
| joeross |
I tried once a very long time ago with a very small $5,000 account and before I could do anything the account was closed. I never made even one trade |
| crosten | How about your in house team, Joe? |
| PeterC |
Joe, did you ever think about giving up when you had a (quite) long miserable run or did you never have such a feeling and if how did you handle it? |
| joeross | crosten: what about our house team? |
| joeross | It is not a fund |
| crosten | your team in trading their own account right ? |
| joeross |
Peter: It was in the early 1970s. I made only one trade in the outrights that year and that was in November. I couldn't find anything to trade other than spreads. Spreads made the house payment that year, and put food on the table. |
| joeross | crosten: we each trade our own account. |
| joeross | But we talk to each other--two of us do and one doesn't |
| PeterC | since that time year in and out you make permanently money every month with trading? |
| crosten | Joe, what does it take to be your in house team ? |
| joeross | Peter: Almost every month. In all the years, I had only one losing month, and that was from a mistake, which I will never make again. |
| joeross | I lost $45 thousand in 20 minutes because I wasn't paying attention |
| joeross | crosten: You have to be a proven good trader. |
| sav | Bondtrader i saw your results on your website, you are the man in those markets well done |
| PeterC | I will have to come for PT though its a far trip |
| crosten | Joe, does your in house team stay in your house ? |
| Bondtrader | well thanks but that's just a start and has to be continued for a long time.... |
| joeross | Peter where do you live? |
| PeterC | I live in Austria at the moment |
| sav | I'm sure it will |
| joeross | crosten: Our offices are in my house, yes. I don't like to drive to work. |
| Bondtrader | sav: thanks I will do my best |
| joeross | Peter: this week I had a man here from Austria for 3 days. He didn't think it was too far |
| crosten | losing 45k, is that the greatest mistake you ever made Joe? |
| PeterC | far can be a substitute |
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| joeross | crosten: The greatest trading mistake, yes |
| crosten | why weren't you paying attention joe ? |
| joeross | crosten: I was busy teaching a broker how to trade. I wasn't focused and it cost me. |
| crosten | Joe since you trade only 1.5 hr that means you don't trade in he afternoon right ? |
| joeross | crosten: The only time I traded in the afternoon was when I lived in South Africa |
| joeross | I don't trade in the afternoon here in the U.S. |
| crosten | Joe does your team trade all day long ? |
| joeross | crosten: no, only 1.5 hours |
| joeross | No later than 10AM to enter and 10:30 to be completely out |
| crosten | Joe do you still trade the snp , like the one you wrote in trading by the minute ? |
| joeross | crosten: No, not since 2003 |
| ian |
joe i cant understand...how did you actually get through the stress of not finding a single directional trade in 1970? i mean house payments and all ...this is such an up and down business ...your books are full of stories about guys who failed....how do build the confidence do carry on |
| crosten | what is the reason joe ? |
| joeross | ian: it was very difficult. My wife kept saying "Where's the money?" |
| murra | How does a person can prove to be a good trader Joe? Do you make an examination? |
| PeterC | hahaha, that's double pressure |
| joeross |
I didn't know how long it would last but by November, I had to do something and so I had one winning futures trade. But the spreads carried me through. |
| joeross | ian: my business is no longer up and down, With so many markets to trade, it is very steady and consistent |
| crosten | Joe, is Mark Cherlin still around ? |
| joeross | crosten: The reason is that there are better markets to trade than the snp |
| sav | If you own your own business it can also be up and down, trading is no different in my view. |
| joeross | murra: the person has to show that he/she can win consistently and has good discipline and does what I show them to do |
| joeross | crosten: Mark is still around, but not around here. |
| joeross | sav: Very true. |
| joeross | It's hard to believe, but it is already time to go. |
| ian |
Joe you have said we have to try and find out about all the factors affecting a market before we trade it...after that we trade what we see...do we have to have an understanding as to why the market is moving a certain way...as i see it ...trade what you see ...means trade it even if you don't understand it |
| PeterC | cya all next week, good night |
| joeross | I will answer the last few questions and then it is good night for you |
| murra | how he can prove it to you ::big grin |
| Bondtrader | good night everyone... |
| crosten | thks Joe, please save the chat |
| nathan | good night and thank you |
| sav | goodnight everyone |
| genmel | thanks bye |
| joeross | Ian: you are correct. At least so for the way I trade. I have no idea about the fundamentals unless I hear something on the news. |
| PeterC | Joe, I will come for PT, will send you an e-mail |
| ian | sorry Joe last question...but u say that we should try and find out about fundamentals? |
| PeterC | good night |
| joeross | Murra: I want to see him trade; what records does he keep; is he disciplined; does he listen to what I'm saying. |
| murra | tk you joe is always constructive meet you good night |
| joeross | ian: No you don't need the fundamentals to make money trading. |
| joeross | At least i don't need them. |
| joeross | bye everyone. |
| keith | Goodbye. |
| ian | ok tks so much Joe...till next time...i can't believe u lived in sunny sa |
| ian | ::wink |
| murra | bye everyone for the next |
END OF CHAT
Next Chat with
Joe Ross:
Thursday, March 8 , 2007
Time: 8:00 - 9:00 P.M., European Central Time (Berlin, Paris, Rome)
COME BACK WITH YOUR TRADING QUESTIONS & COMMENTS!
