Trading Educators Inc. - Joe Ross - Day Trading and Online Trading

Euro Chat with Joe Ross

Chat log from: Thursday, April 26, 2007

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marsh	Hey, Mikhail
mikhail	Do you trade today?
marsh	A little, but the indexes are not very volatile
mikhail	I made a very nice trade in ER2 today
marsh	Yeah, in the first hour, there were some good ones
mikhail	But it was mainly b/ac I am starting to slowly incorporate Market profile stuff into my trading...
marsh	I'm glad you found some value there
mikhail	I bought ER 1 pt. away from it's low for the day
mikhail	Took out 2 pt. on 1/2 of the position and 3 on the rest
marsh	Good deal
mikhail	I am happy, cause I usually don't have the patience to hold on in the ER for too long
marsh	Is there usually a good turnout for this chat?
mikhail	So, so
mikhail	I haven't been here in a while
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crosten	Any day traders here
mikhail	Guilty as charged
mikhail	:)
mikhail	???
mikhail	Why ask?
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marsh	Hi Joe
mikhail	JOE! :)
joeross	Hi All
joeross	Anything going on?
crosten	Joe is it necessary to have a degree like you have to be a good trader?
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ronnie	Guten Tag Joe!
mikhail	Degree?
joeross	crosten: You don't need any degree to be a good trader.
joeross	Guten Tag, ronnie
mikhail	A Masters in fortune telling can't hurt
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ronnie	Joe, going back to what I asked you yesterday, about prices being more likely to go where they've been before
joeross	Hi nathan
nathan	Hi everyone
nathan	Hi Mr. Sumo
joeross	Let's go back, ronnie
crosten	Joe I am sure you have met many traders, what personality traits do these traders have?
mikhail	"Balls"
ronnie	I noticed on the trading matrix that whatever price has had the most volume became almost like a magnet for the rest of the day
mikhail	:)
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joeross	crosten: I have no idea. Many have tried to identify what it is that makes for a successful trader. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever figured it out.
sav	Hi everyone
joeross	ronnie: That is a good observation
mikhail	You must have a genuine drive and passion for trading
joeross	crosten: I mean I don't know
joeross	Hi sav
mikhail	What's a "trading matrix"?
ronnie	In tradestation, its like a spreadsheet that you can trade off
ronnie	It shows prices and how much volume each price has had
mikhail	Shows volume at each price level?
mikhail	Ah
mikhail	meta-profile
crosten	Joe you said that discipline is very important, but what can I practice to discipline myself?
joeross	Mikhail: It is like the market profile owned by the CBOT
joeross	And invented by Pete Steidlmayer
mikhail	Yes, it's called meta-profile
mikhail	Which is market-profile in real time
ronnie	I've been using it more and more to determine the general area the market wants to be at
joeross	crosten: You could try marshall arts
mikhail	Ronnie, that's true on a normal non-trending day
ronnie	Right
mikhail	Ronnie, have you read "mind over market"?
ronnie	And on trends just buy or sell corrections
ronnie	No, I haven't read it.
mikhail	Take a look
mikhail	It's exactly what you are talking about
joeross	crosten: You can go on our website and purchase "The Trading Mind"
ronnie	Checking it right now
mikhail	Joe, what % of the time do markets trend?
crosten	Are you serious Joe? I mean to discipline oneself when trading? Can you give me some tips? I have read your book but you did not mention how to develop discipline.
joeross	mikhail: It is said they trend 15% of the time. I don't know how they prove that.
joeross	crosten: Yes I did show you how to keep discipline: Keep the Life Index.
ronnie	crosten, when I was in the military, they said there are just 4 types of discipline: refraining from food, sleep, %%%, and controlling pain...
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joeross	Hi Susan, Estraros
estaros	Hi
ronnie	Don't markets trend almost 80 % of the time on tick charts
SusanL	Hi Joe :)
crosten	The life index is about happiness. Can you please give me some tips on how to discipline oneself? please
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joeross	crosten: You do not understand the Life Index if you think it is about happiness.
nathan	Do you think foreign governments want to strengthen the dollar a bit?
joeross	crosten: Why don't you try to discipline yourself to really use and understand the Life Index?
mikhail	Crosten: start each day w/ a bucket of ice cold water first thing in the morning
mikhail	:)
crosten	Please Joe, some tips?
ronnie	Go running at 4 in the morning crosten
joeross	nathan: I think foreign governments don't know what to do about the dollar.
mikhail	Trust me, it works like magic
nathan	Why?
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joeross	crosten: Read Marc Douglas' book "The Disciplined Trader"
Stefanm	Hello
Stefanm	Hello from Spain
joeross	Hola Stefan
Stefanm	Como estamos
ronnie	Buenos dias
Stefanm	Buenas
crosten	Joe: I have this problem, you mention that you either take profits quickly or slowly, I have no problem taking profits quickly, but taking profits slowly is a big problem for me.
mikhail	Engles por favor
mikhail	:)
RicketyTin	Hasta La Vista Babe
nathan	Why don´t they know what to do with the dollar?
joeross	crosten: You can solve your problem easily. Take profits quickly.
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ronnie	Anyone see that trick entry short developing on the er2?
murra	Hi Joe and all
Stefanm	Yes i know the chat is in english but maybe there are some people who have questions
crosten	I am always very uncomfortable in taking profits slowly?
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sav	There was a good Rh on the 5min chart on er2 this morning (or afternoon in europe)
Stefanm	Si alguien tiene una pregunta me la pone a mi y supongo Joe contesta con mucho gusto
crosten	How do you take profits slowly, I am always worrying about taking profits slowly?
joeross	nathan: Because they have a tiger by the tail with regards to the U.S. If they dump the dollar, they lose their collective rear ends as the dollar goes down. But if they support the dollar by buying U.S. debt, or holding more dollars they are just adding to the pile of paper they have that is diminishing in value. They don't know whether to hang on or let go.
joeross	Hi murra
joeross	crosten: Quit worrying and just take profits quickly.
sav	crosten: If you are trading multiple lots when in profit take the first one quickly than leave the rest to run or take them out slowly
Stefanm	Joe how do you see the gold market?
sav	Joe is gold liquid enough for daytrading?
crosten	Joe, the thing is, I have to develop a method whereby it requires me to take profit slowly, but it drives me mad to take profits slowly, what can I do Joe?
joeross	Stefan: I see it rising over the long term but very bumpy ride with many corrections
joeross	sav: Lately it is liquid enough
Stefanm	You can trade the ZG at CBOT
joeross	crosten: Abandon any method that is not comfortable for you. Get rid of it!
Stefanm	Also the have live option trading
joeross	Stefan: Yes you can trade Gold at the CBOT
joeross	CBOT is now the preferred place to trade gold, in my opinion.
Stefanm	The only drawback in the option market is that at this time you can't make spreads in options
Stefanm	Yes
crosten	Thanks Joe, but Joe the method does make money? Will you still trade a method that makes money even though it makes you uncomfortable?
Stefanm	Because when I buy options I make it pit traded at Comex because of the spread possibility
Stefanm	Long put, short call
joeross	crosten: I will not trade anything that makes me uncomfortable.
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joeross	Hi Lutrade
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joeross	Hi colbru
Lutrade69	Hi everybody
Stefanm	Hello
colbru	Hello my first visit
crosten	Will you consider an 80% probability method even though it makes you uncomfortable Joe?
joeross	crosten: I will not trade any method that makes me uncomfortable.
crosten	Thks joe
colbru	I've come here because I've heard that Joe is going to talk about an 80% win rate in Munich
joeross	colbru, don't make this your last visit, but I will be in Europe throughout May and the next chat will be May 31.
marsh	crosten: What is the drawdown of your 80% method?
colbru	I don't know yet if I want to join the seminar there
crosten	Joe regarding your Sushi method, I don't get it , it has a 53% win, but you are still selling it, why Joe ?
colbru	I live close to Munich
joeross	colbru: I will be showing some good stuff in Munich. You will be welcome if you decide to come.
Stefanm	so we gonna see us in Munich
colbru	Joe I'd like to make my living in trading.... what is my required capital to make on average 5000$
joeross	crosten: Because the method makes money, that's why, crosten. You have an entirely wrong idea about methods. It is not the winning percentage that is important, it is the profit amount that really has meaning. If it makes money, I don't care if it wins only 25% of the time.
colbru	5000$ per month
joeross	colbru: There is no way for me to tell. It depends on what you trade and how well you trade it.
crosten	Joe: What food is recommend for traders, do you eat while trading?
Stefanm	Spread trading would be the best or not?
Stefanm	For small accounts
joeross	crosten: I eat sometimes when I am trading, but not usually
joeross	Stefan: Spread trading is very good for small accounts. Spread require very low margin and very little time to trade.
mikhail	Colbru: this is just my thing, trade 1 contract per each $10K, and try to make around $500-1000/month of off each contract...
crosten	Recommended trader food?
colbru	Lets assume I come to your seminar and then practice for a couple of months what you teach and then start trading forex or whatever you think is best with a capital of 100'000$ would it be possible?
joeross	crosten: Sashimi ;)
sav	Joe, out of your students who does the best, position traders, daytraders or spread traders?
crosten	hehe
sav	Or a combination of everything
joeross	sav: So far the edge goes to the spread traders.
Stefanm	Or option traders?
mikhail	Colbru, I don't know about all the other stuff, but yes there is no reason why a good trader should not make 3-5%/month on equity
joeross	Stefan: Option traders also do very well if they follow the way we indicate they should trade.
Stefanm	Alan Parry
crosten	For the corn and wheat market only , how many minutes will pass after the market open before you start trading Joe?
joeross	Stefan: Alan wins 75% of his trades. He is very consistent
joeross	crosten: I trade corn and wheat on the Open
joeross	I do not wait in those two markets
Stefanm	Yes i know but unfortunately most of the traders don't know option trading
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zak2007	Hi Joe and all
joeross	Hi zak and Hi Trader-A
Stefanm	Hi
sav	I'm one of them
colbru	Joe what is your answer to my question? please
crosten	Is there a particular reason, Joe when compared to other markets where you wait?
zak2007	Joe do you still daytrade emini-sp500 with the method shown in "DAYTRADING"?
joeross	colbru: Yes! with $100k it would be possible. If you do it well, you will make even more.
colbru	And can you teach me that in that seminar
mikhail	lol
mikhail	:)
joeross	zak: Sometimes I trade that way, but only if the e-mini snp is the best market to trade. Right now it isn't as good as the bonds.
joeross	colbru: Yes, you will learn how to do it.
nathan	Hi zak, are you trading overseas now?
joeross	crosten: The grains generally open with a bang. I trade the bang! :)
Stefanm	If you can't learn from Joe there is no other who can show it to you
crosten	Joe how much money do you need to start trading options?
zak2007	Hi nathan. I trade eurostoxx
joeross	crosten: As much money as you can get.
colbru	mmhhh... and how big are the expected max drawdowns
crosten	I mean what what is the minimum to get started to trade options?
joeross	colbru: I can't give you that information here. I would have to look it up and there is not enough time.
zak2007	Joe, I have downloaded the 12 steps from AA to solve emotional problems. it's a hard thing to do!
joeross	Hold on colbru and I will try to get it for you up-to-date
joeross	Ok: Maximum closed out drawdown is: $5,156. Maximum Intraday drawdown is $5,219
joeross	crosten: You need at least $5k
colbru	Joe: but you will have some rough idea if it will be 30% or 20% or 10% if I'm always risking 1% of capital per trade
joeross	zaK: Self-control is always difficult
crosten	Joe on average how many trades does the profit popper generate on a monthly basis?
zak2007	But self-control is the only way to success
joeross	colbru: I just gave you exact up-to-date figures.
colbru	Joe: Your number calculated from 100k capital
joeross	colbru: The numbers I gave are what you would actually experience regardless of your account size
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joeross	Colbru: If you are only willing to risk 1% of Capital, then you cannot trade the method I will be showing at the seminar
joeross	Hi quester
quester123	hello Joe and all
Stefanm	hello
joeross	I cannot understand why people lock themselves into a percent of capital risk when they should let the market tell them how much to risk
colbru	Joe you mean on a good looking entry you risk more?
joeross	In all the time I have traded the method I will teach, I have never once had that much of a drawdown. In fact, never even half of that amount
crosten	Joe on average how many trades does the profit popper generate on a monthly basis?
joeross	colbru: I mean if you trade the way I will show you, you will never have a huge drawdown.
colbru	mmhh sounds amazing
joeross	crosten: I don't know off-hand, and I can't look it up now.
quester123	Joe how far is your wife away from finishing to proofread "trading is a business" now - weeks maybe?
joeross	The problem with most traders is they try to trade mathematically and that is not the way I do it.
colbru	Joe are you familiar with drummond geometry?
joeross	colbru: I never risk more. I risk less.
joeross	colbur: I don't care about anything that has to do with Mathematics
Stefanm	Trade Execution and risk management
joeross	I don't know what drummond geometry is and I don't care what it is. If you will learn to trade the way I do, you won't care about it either.
colbru	But Joe you have to use some money management and that always means mathematics
joeross	quester: Trading is a Business (revised/updated) is now at the printer. It will be ready as soon as they print it.
crosten	Joe, I met this trader who told me that the hardest part about trading, is finding a reason not to trade? are these wise words Joe?
joeross	colbru: You have a lot to learn. You better come to the seminar
joeross	crosten: They are wise words for some but not all.
crosten	Joe, how many methods will you teach at the seminar? And can you automate the methods?
murra	I can reinforce Joe about his teaching at the seminar and in his book. After studying you look at markets in a different way but the best is you know every time which decision to take and the best is you go out from the wrong trades immediately
joeross	crosten: I will teach whatever I teach. I will teach at least one method but usually more. It depends on the audience. If they can figure out a way to automate it, that is up to them. I don't automate anything.
colbru	Joe you're saying money management involves no mathematics?
joeross	colbru: I'm saying money management is a very small part of what I do. My emphasis is on trade management.
sav	Joe, are your methods based on the law of charts?
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joeross	If you do proper trade management, you can relegate money management to a very tiny factor in your trading
joeross	Hi Joao
joaohgomes	Hi all, good evening from Brazil...
joaohgomes	Hi Mr. Ross.
crosten	Joe, i know that you have tons of methods, is it true that the best methods is a method whereby you need a human to be there to trade the method?
joeross	sav: Everything I do is based on the Law of Charts and the many way to implement that law
joaohgomes	Hi Susan
joaohgomes	JH from Brazil...
joeross	All: Please do not try to compare the way I trade with anything you ever learned from all the rotten books you have read and all the phony seminars you have attended. Virtually all that stuff is offered by guys who never traded or guys who failed at trading.
crosten	Joe what is the probability of trading Ross hook? and what time frame is good for trading Ross hook to achieve high probability -- higher time frame or smaller time frame?
joeross	crosten: I prefer human intervention in any method.
ronnie	1 winner, 1 loser today... go for one more today Joe?
joeross	crosten: There is no answer for your question.
crosten	Why is that so Joe?
joeross	crosten: It depends on who is trading the RH
joeross	If I trade an RH, I win 80% of the time. I don't know about you.
joaohgomes	Mr. Ross, the other night you said you don't believe in risking a fix % of your account. Can you talk more about it?
crosten	Is trading the ross hook more than 70% from your experience Joe?
joeross	joao: Yes I can talk more about it, but not in the next 3 minutes
joaohgomes	hahaha
joaohgomes	ok... sorry.
joeross	I can say only this much. Let the market tell you how much to risk. Do not setup some crazy amount that you pulled out of your head or from some mathematical calculation.
crosten	Joe you win 80% trading ross hook which market is that?
joaohgomes	ok.. tks. Now I got your point.
joeross	crosten: The percent I win is not related to a market or time frame. It is related only to the way I manage my trades. As I already told you, winning percentage has no meaning. What counts is whether or not you are making money from your trading.
joeross	Earlier colbru asked about 1%. Why? Where does such a silly number come from? The method I teach at the seminar shows a computer generated drawdown of over $5,000. But I have never had even a $1,000 drawdown trading the method. Why? Because I let the market show me where to put my stop.
crosten	What time frame did you trade in this market where you achieve 80% prob?
joeross	crosten: Any and all markets
nathan	Thanks Joe and bye
colbru	Joe if I buy your Ross Hook book a can have a hit rate of 80%?
joeross	If I trade an Rh. I will win with it 80% of the time, regardless of market or time frame
joaohgomes	I see Mr. Ross.
murra	When we trade a market we must know how many we need for that market and this is an important question for the trade diversely we can't take the trade as like I would a ferrari but i don't have the money is it right Joe?
joeross	colbru: I cannot guarantee you will win anything if you buy my Ross Hook book.
joeross	murra: You are right. Yes. You learned well at the seminar.
murra	The stop must be right for every trade if not we can lose is better not entry is not in accordance with our parameters
joaohgomes	Yeap... give two people the same system, they don't get the same results
colbru	How much you win in that 80% 100$ per trade and in the loosing 20% trades you lose 800$ per trade ??? you understand what i mean anyone can have a 80% win rate
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joaohgomes	One, can make money, while the other lose money.
joeross	colbru: That is correct. The bottom line is whether or not you make money.
joeross	colbru: If you want some kind of guarantee about trading you should buy an insurance policy. Anyone who has to have a guarantee has no business trading.
colbru	I'm not asking about a guarantee I'm only saying that a win rate means nothing
murra	colbru: it depends how you are willing to learn and in this you must include respect for the rule (excuse me Joe?
joeross	colbru: You are absolutely right. A win rate means nothing. The only thing that counts is are you making money. If you know that, why do you keep asking me if you will win 80% of the time?
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quester123	Joe when placing limit orders and the market trades at that price but not through it. Is it the first come first served?
joeross	All: If you come to see us in Ravenna, Italy or in Munich, Germany, I am happy to meet you there.
joeross	Next euro chat will be Thursday, May 31.
zak2007	Bye joe and all
joeross	quester: It is first in -- first out, by size
murra	See you Joe and all
joeross	quester: The bigger you are the more likely to be filled at the limit
crosten	Joe I have a method whereby if the method loses 2 time in a row, it usually wins the 3 rd time, is it wise to trade more the 3rd time ?
joeross	joao: Ask your question in the forum where I will have time to answer it.
joeross	The one about risk %
crosten	...I mean increase lot size?
joaohgomes	Ok, Mr Ross.
SusanL	Hey Joah, I didn't get to say hi yet
joeross	crosten; If you are comfortable using a Monte Carlo method it's ok. But I'm not sure you will like it
SusanL	Hope you are doing fine over there in Brazil
joeross	crosten: what if you lose 11 times in a row?
joaohgomes	yeap... I'm fine here in Brazil.
joaohgomes	thks
joeross	Bye all. I am going out to work in my garden.
quester123	Ah thanks Joe is there any way to increase the odds of getting filled even though the price only trades at the order?
murra	good night all
joeross	quester: There is a company that says they can get you filled more often at the limit. I will try to research who they are.
joeross	I have to plant my peas and zucchini and cucumbers
joeross	See you on 31 May.
crosten	It will kill me Joe, but so far i have never lost 11 time in a row
marsh	bye Joe, thanks. I hope you have a good trip.
joaohgomes	Nice therapy Mr. Ross
joaohgomes	bye to you all...
RicketyTin	Bye Joe - good gardening!
joaohgomes	Susan, bye.
joeross	Ciao, Tschüß, Hasta Luego,

END OF CHAT

Next Chat with Joe Ross:
Thursday, May 31 , 2007
Time: 8:00 - 9:00 P.M., European Central Time (Berlin, Paris, Rome)

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