Chat with Joe Ross
Chat log from: Tuesday, December 4, 2007
Live Chat with Joe starts Tuesday at 8.00 PM U.S. Central Time! |
amathevs21 joined. tradecraze joined trader12 joined JoeRoss joined. amathevs21 In my chat room Mr. Joe Ross has joined. trader12 Great! amathevs21 OK trader12 I think I see him too. amathevs21 Hello Mr Ross trader12 But he has not spoken yet. trader12 Hello Joe Ross! amathevs21 Maybe he read first every chat in this chat room. JoeRoss Hello. amathevs21 Hi Nice to meet you sir. JoeRoss Likewise. amathevs21 Is very honour to chat with you Mr. Ross. JoeRoss We are a few minutes early, but I will be right back. trader12 Ok. amathevs21 No problem Mr. Ross. spreadtrader joined. JoeRoss Good evening everyone. trader12 Hi Joe! amathevs21 Good evening sir. JoeRoss We have some new faces :) amathevs21 IC trader12 I'm new. trader12 My name is Rick. amathevs21 I'm new too sir. amathevs21 My name is Matthew JoeRoss Nice to meet you both. trader12 Same here. amathevs21 Thank you Sirs. JoeRoss What part of the world are you in? amathevs21 I'm a currencies trader. amathevs21 Online trading in Oanda Corporation-New York. JoeRoss I'm familiar with it. amathevs21 IC JoeRoss I prefer the currency futures. trader12 I'm from the USA amathevs21 Can you describe the different the currencies Futures with the online currencies m trade now? JoeRoss There is virtually no difference in the price action. Futures move more money per tick than forex does per pip. JoeRoss Overhead costs are much lower in futures. cctx07 joined. amathevs21 So you meant the gearing(Leverage) is more big? Dean joined. JoeRoss I mean that for 10 ticks in futures I make $125 vs $100 or 10 pips in forex. amathevs21 OIC. netwonc joined. JoeRoss $3.62 per round turn is total overhead costs. amathevs21 Thank you sir for this valuable information, & I'll be learning more about currencies Futures. amathevs21 Where can I open the account in currencies Futures Sir? amathevs21 How much minimal Investment is needed? JoeRoss If all you want is electronic trading you can try Interactive Brokers. amathevs21 OIC amathevs21 I've heard them in advertising on CNBC TV. JoeRoss amathevs: I don't know how much their minimum account is. Sherri joined. amathevs21 OK, no problem Sir, I'll be checking it by myself, but Thank you for your information. JoeRoss Hi sherri, netwonc, cctx netwonc Hi Joe. netwonc Glad your back. JoeRoss Thanks. It's good to be back. Sherri Hi Joe! Welcome back! Hi Everyone! JoeRoss It was cold in Europe. Ice, snow, sleet..... Brrrrr marsh joined. JoeRoss Hi marsh marsh Hi Joe Sherri What is the temp. in Austin? JoeRoss It was 73 today, I think. Sherri Good grief. JoeRoss No grief, just good and comfortable :-) marsh A beautiful day here in Austin. JoeRoss Yes it sure was. Sherri Please tell us about overseas. What's going on? JoeRoss I did a lot of speaking over there. marsh The air in Austin was crystal clear. Being raised in Los Angeles, I can appreciate it. JoeRoss 4 days on my feet in Italy and 9 days on my feet in Germany. JoeRoss We are really fortunate with the weather here. Storms in the Pacific Northwest, and storms in the Northeast. Sherri Lotta snow up here. JoeRoss I spoke at an Expo in Frankfurt for 3 days and then did 6 days in Munich. amathevs21 Wauw it's cool sir-great. cctx07 Joe, do you ever give presentations or seminars in the Austin area? Thanks. JoeRoss cctx: I used to give them here but now I prefer to just do private tutoring in the U.S. JoeRoss Every so often I speak for an hour or so to the Austin Association for Financial Traders. Sherri I'd like to ask about stop limit orders. If I'm in a thin type market and get lousy fills, is stop limit the thing to do? JoeRoss It's a way to play it safe, sherri, but also you might not get filled. Sherri That's better than a bad fill probably. JoeRoss sherri: possibly better. If it's thin, and you get in, you might have trouble getting out. JoeRoss You don't want to use stop limit for your exits. But if you go out at the market you could get butchered. marsh Sometimes the bid-ask spread of a thin market is as big as the anticipated profit from the trade. JoeRoss Amen to that, marsh. marsh I know from personal experience, in the hogs. JoeRoss sherri: which market are you wanting to trade? JoeRoss I got oiled in heating oil that way once. 32 ticks slippage. JoeRoss A very long time ago. marsh So what did I get in hogs, porked? Sherri
Well, I'd like to trade the gold overnight - since I like that market and I'm up anyway, But when I look at the activity, it doesn't seem like many people are there - until the morning. JoeRoss Sounds about right marsh, you were porked :-). JoeRoss That's true, sherri. marsh
Yeah, the gold chart looks pretty good, until one looks at the day only, or pit chart. Then there are lots of gaps. But leaving a stop order in the market to be filled overnight seems dangerous. Sherri
Joe, I know you said to avoid anything that didn't trade 6,000 per day, but I don't knkow how that applies to the whole 24 hour period. JoeRoss sherri: Good question. I have to think about that. The 6,000 was for the old day only markets. JoeRoss Hmm! I need to change what I say about the 6000 volume. JoeRoss Maybe it's better to come up with a per hour number for each market.. Sherri Marsh, I don't understand what you mean "day only or pit charts." Please explain. marsh The electronic markets are open 24 hours. But the pits where physical trading takes place are only open so many hours per day. Sherri Right. But shouldn't there be fewer gaps in the "day" session? marsh Charting services have different symbols for 24 hour vs pit hours, producing often very different charts. JoeRoss
sherri: Most of what used to be traded in the day session is now traded in the electronic markets, so the day only session is no longer as liquid as it used to be. trader12 I had a question about exits if you don't mind? JoeRoss Go for it t12 trader12 Thanks! Sherri But the electronic market during day hours is liquid...? trader12 You wrote about %50 trailing stop in your book. trader12 But I wasn't sure what you meant by % 50. trader12 %50 of what? JoeRoss sherri: Electronic daytime hours are liquid. JoeRoss t12: %50 of unrealized paper profits. Sherri Thanks. trader12 Oh! trader12 Thank you. JoeRoss
sherri: What you have to realize is that even though electronic markets are open 22 hours or so, the traders still like to trade the same hours that they used to trade in the pits. JoeRoss
The grain traders still do most of their trading from 9:30am CT to 1:15pm CT; Metal traders still like 7:2am CT until 2 pm CT, etc. they don't want to work longer hours simply because the screwballs at the exchange decided to keep the markets open longer hours. JoeRoss
Currencies, bonds, notes. 7:20am to 2pm U.S. Central Time. Just like they did before there was all this round-the-clock trading. acman joined. Sherri
Another thing I like about the night gold is that it moves a lot. So if I'm super careful about getting in, it's just a question of when to get out. And on that topic, will a market order always get me out? amathevs21 IC acman That sound like copper. It moves $2k per day. 1 cent is $250. JoeRoss sherri: A market order will always get you out. But you might not like the slippage. Sherri I see. Thanks. acman
Sherri: I trade into the spreads sometimes at 2am. I use the bid / ask mostly to see when it is ok to trade. I use trade station and they have a Matrix that shows the depth on both sides. marsh
Often one leg of a seasonal spread is very illiquid. Is it better to set a limit order in the illiquid leg and wait for that fill before putting in the order for the liquid leg? Sherri How does one use "depth on both sides?" JoeRoss sherri: I did a quick calculation on gold volume per hour. Looks like 350 contracts/hour is pretty good. acman The depth as I am referring is the amount of orders at the bid and at the ask. Sherri So then, Acman, you want to see a certain amount of orders at the bid and ask? JoeRoss marsh: Yes. Get in the illiquid side first with a limit order before putting on the other leg. acman Joe: I did a heating oil spread and is there anything less liquid? marsh Thanks, Joe. Trading these spreads with a thin side seems to be quite an art. JoeRoss acman: You could try feeder cattle or milk. They may be less liquid. Sherri Thank you, Joe. Are you saying that if gold trades 350 contracts per hour at night, it should be an o.k. time to trade? JoeRoss acman: How about butter? marsh Are they still trading sorghum? acman Joe: that may be more illiquid! acman You got me there! JoeRoss sherri: That's what the average volume is for gold. What time of night are you looking at gold? acman
I found the outer months 4 months out or so were trading only during a 10 minute period so I just waited until the spread was ok around that time. It took 2 weeks to get the opportunity. Sherri
Oh maybe 3 a.m., or so. Maybe I could just bring up that volume feature and see how much was there in the current hour... JoeRoss
I once took 3 weeks to get into a eurodollar option. I tried to buy for 1 cent every day for 3 weeks. I finally got filled and made 40 times my $$$. JoeRoss sherri: There seems to be around 350 volume at 3AM. JoeRoss I checked out a few days and the volume is there. Sherri Super! Thanks! acman Sherri: if you look at short period charts, they will give you a picture of when the active times are. Go to a 3 minute or so and you will see when not to trade. Sherri O.K. JoeRoss 336, 331, 371, 362.... Close enough for trading. But also do as acman says, so you can find out when within the hour you can safely trade. JoeRoss All of those I gave are volumes from the hour 3am to 4am. Sherri Thanks for your help, guys. Heck, I could trade at night and keep watch for coyotes which are thinning out the neighborhood's cat population. acman Joe: the Bean Oil spread is taking off. I have been tracking it since you mentioned it in your newsletter. Missed it. Too busy with emergency calls for heat. JoeRoss Of course, volume alone does not mean liquidity. It could be 2 trades in the hour between 2 traders that give that much volume. JoeRoss The bean Oil Spread took a pause and is ready to go again. acman Still the BOV-BOH? JoeRoss Also, I've been banging long Swiss and short Canadian. acman The looney sure is getting slammed. acman I did a AD - CD and made1.25 points. I will look at that SF - CD. JoeRoss acman: I didn't see your question. I was looking at something. Yes BOV-BOH for 2008. JoeRoss That June - February hog spread looks good too. netwonc You talking about long Swiss and short C$ spread, Joe? acman Is it too late to get in? it is already at .13 from .7 JoeRoss C$ is back below parity. JoeRoss netwonc: Yes, long Swiss short C$. netwonc Thanks,,,just want to stay up:):) acman
Marsh's program is showing a 2 month trading range from July to Aug that looks like a landing site with the top being at 96.96 on the C$. JoeRoss acman: it may be too late, but I'm still in. JoeRoss C$ has been real good to me this year. Sherri Joe, before the hour is up, do the Europeans think we're going into recession? JoeRoss But when C$ went over parity, it really creamed a lot of Canadian companies. If it stays high it will be the end of the Canadian lumber business. JoeRoss They have too many taxes up there and with the US charging a tariff on Canadian lumber, they are going broke and filing bankruptcy right and left in Canada. JoeRoss sherri: They worry about it, yes. They cannot figure out why we do what we do, and it makes them nervous. marsh Looking at the C$ chart, there was a wonderful spike reversal, then after that some good Rh short entries. JoeRoss I think I made most of my trading bucks in the C$ this year. Spreads, outrights and options. JoeRoss All in the C$ acman I am starting to realize that what is good for the banks is what the FED does and the rest of us just pick up the tab! JoeRoss sherri: The Europeans will be very glad to see Bush go. JoeRoss We are going to eat all the bad mortgages before this mess is over with. marsh I think that what is good for the FED is what the FED does. brad joined. acman Funny that Countrywide wanted to charge me a lot of points to refinance my 9.5% loan during the past few years so I just paid it off. Can't say I wish them the best. netwonc It is like the S&L of the 80's but worse, much worse... JoeRoss Vote for Huckabee, he wants to do away with the FED. Of course, they will probably assassinate him before he ever gets around to it. marsh Happened to John Kennedy. JoeRoss You are right, netwonc. JoeRoss Much worse. marsh He wanted to abolish the FED, too. netwonc Anyone for real change doesn't get to the high offices. acman That is why I like trading. It is all in the charts and not in the talking heads. JoeRoss True acman, especially on the intraday charts. netwonc Huckabee is making some headway lately... raising some eyebrows. JoeRoss It's pretty hard for the talking heads to have much impact on a 5 minute chart. JoeRoss He may be able to pull off what Bill Clinton did: come out of nowhere and get elected. JoeRoss No one had ever heard of Bill Clinton. He was the lowest paid governor in the U.S. from the state of Arkansas. JoeRoss And all of a sudden he was the President. philippe joined. marsh The nowhere where Clinton came from was Arkansas, where indoor plumbing is still a novelty in some places. Huckabee was governor of Arkansas, too. JoeRoss Yes, Huckabee was also a governor of Arkansas. netwonc Huckabee is also from Hope, Arkansas. JoeRoss brad and philippe you are an hour late, and I'm 5 minutes overtime. netwonc Must be something in the water there. netwonc Sure are, good night all, and thanks for a most interesting evening... acman Glad to have a chat again and an active one at that. Good questions tonight! Sherri Nice to have you back, Joe and thanks for all the help! Goodnight all! JoeRoss I'll be back next week and the week after and then not back until January 8 or maybe even 15. trader12 Good night! marsh Goodnight Joe, and thanks. acman I will save up alot of questions for next week. JoeRoss Thanks for visiting y'all. Good night everyone. JoeRoss I'll save up the answers acman Thanks and have a great week, Joe. JoeRoss Ciao, Servus, Hasta luego, See ya. amathevs21 Bye, Joe
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Joe Ross:
Tuesday, December 11, 2007
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